. >> on the issue of healthcare. is obamacare good or bad? >> nobody knows but i am going to explain why it's not been good. it's no the because of obamacare. it's not because of the law. our rates were going up 30% long before obamacare. in moo i humble opinion, for rates to go up 30% because they are supposedly worried about what obamacare is going to look like. i don't think anybody really knows right now. >> bill: you can pool your resources. >> our organization pushed to allow cooperatives which would allow small businesses to form a self-in insured insurance co-op to compete with the 4 large companies who unilaterally rise rates. we got funded through obamacare which was great. how the exchanges are going to work, we need again both parties in government to come together and figure out what those will look like. right now, all people see are rates going up. >> sbac. >> sbac? >> il.org. >> sbacil.org. there it is. in this climate, the great big businesses and big corporations get a lot of say and a lot of power and we don't hear enough o